Homosexuality In Trinidad

[Movedtoanswer]

Well gay dudes are not men or boys they can not be in any gender, they are not humans regardless of how good he is, in the bible states that if you are gay you are already dead in my eyes( NOT THE EXACT WORDS). So you see all them church leaders, priest and so forth who sexing will boys and they know what the bible wrote well i sorry for the people who follow them.

The Bible clearly disapproves of homosexual sex, but it never says anything like that.
If you want to talk theology, no sin is so great that there is no redemption for it, and even worse, very few of the people left out of heaven would have been active homosexuals; much, much, much more would have been heterosexual liars/cheaters/thieves.

And if the Bible says anything about homosexual sex it is tens of times (literally) more vociferous about heterosexual sex outside of marriage (fornication and adultery). People just choose what they want to hear. Which is partly why I don't get riled up about homosexual behavior from a religious standpoint; it's not like the straights are following the Bible on this either, and they aren't any "less wrong" because they are straight. It's all or nothing in my opinion.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

You know jamaican artistes are getting trouble for singing anti gay songs. Really they getting penalise for all the so called hate speech. Cant straight people talk about their preference anymore.

"Gunshot inna head" is not a "preference" it is illegal.

Straights do talk/sing about their preference all the time. Why almost every love song ever written...

Jamaica does have a serious problem though. They are obsessed to an unhealthy degree. And do tell; if there are no gays in Jamaica, then who are all these "chi chi men" they keep singing about obsessively?

Jamaica--hands down produces the largest share of the worlds songs about homosexuals by far! I find that very funny. Try to find the theme of homosexuality in music from say Sweden (a liberal country) or maybe England (where gays can marry now). Go back 50 years to the birth of pop music and tell me if you find even 1% of the music talking about homosexuality as you find out of "gay-free" Jamaica in one year.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

Is one Born gay or is he made gay????

Well, science does not know.

All the research is conflicting and inconclusive.

For example the more older brothers you have (not sisters eh) the more likely you are to be gay--but not if you are left-handed. (And the percentages are small too like 6 percent and below). However, gay men are more likely to be left-handed by (13% vs 11% for straight men).
None of this applies to lesbians and I can cite more. So you see what's going on in science--not many conclusions possible.

My personal guess from reading, asking and other sources is that there are different "causes" in different people. It may be one or some combination or several factors.

Nobody knows for sure and now the science is getting so political that we may never know.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

Made gay by choice.. They way I see it you have a choice to fight it or give in. Like some people born with the potential to be killers cuz the have weak emotions but they wont kill if the dont want to. Even if a man tink he gay i dont think he has to stay that way. Some just indulge in the gayness... is a show off thing.

Indeed people can choose how they behave, but...

"Show off" to whom?
I can think of a hell of a lot of ways to "show off" before engaging in homosexual sex. And doesn't "show off" imply that you hope most others will be impressed?

Most Trinis would not find homosexual behavior "impressive".

Some people do report that their homosexual feelings go away, and I believe them. Many others say it doesn't and I believe them too yes.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

I think its a hormone thing....They are born with less male hormones and more female hormones... :icon_neutral:

This is untrue.
Testosterone injections used to be a common "treatment" for homosexuality back in the day but they stopped when people realized that gay men do not have different levels of testosterone to straights.

Their brains do seem to respond to testosterone like female brains though:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... scent.html

So again who knows?

Here is another overview:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... ce19m.html

Note:
" Human brain studies are problematic for another reason: Brain structures can guide behavior, but behavior also can cause brain structures to enlarge or shrink, making it difficult to say which comes first."

So it's back to square one again.

 

[RauCous]

Now, people can choose how they wish to behave. There is simply no question about that. People who have same-sex attractions do not have to act on them--and a good many do not, especially in places like Trinidad where it can be dangerous or expose one to ridicule etc.
Others do not for religious reasons.
But some choose to act on their feelings.
The feelings really do exist. You will not voluntarily choose to do something you are not already inclined in some way to do.
You can choose how you act; but you often cannot choose your motivations (I did not say "motives" eh two different words).

Everyone suffers from some form of "negative" compulsion, read about intrusive thoughts(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thoughts), its human nature to conceive of things they rather not, the point is how you respond to those thoughts.
I find myself 'intrigued" by all kinds of things, wierd, oddball things, macabre , evil, even should i act on this facination? Noo..well at least in my case i know certain things just arent right.. but if i really wanted to be evil... should i? because it is my undeniable nature? Should i abuse my free will to do borderline or questionable acts?? Ok lets all do what we feel like now..

All you have to "do" to be homosexual is to have a sexual attraction to members of your own sex. You don't have to have sex with them, or put on lipstick, or call the "girlfriend" with a lisp; you just have to have a sexual physiological response to them (and not to women). (Check the dictionary)

I understand this completely, but i was refering to homosexuality as a lifestyle, in a very generalised way. I'm fully aware that there are no external cues to someones sexuality, see me i have long nails, so some people think i'm gay, but if i honestly thought that long nails denotes sexuality i'd have cut them a long time ago.. The thing is as much as we like to assume that homosexuality is just about preference, its way beyond that. You say its been around forever i know this also, its just that now it's a movement,
a life style, a loosely connected social organisation like freerunning, or goth (not that goth is gay) or autosportsism (gasbrainsim). It's sole purpose it to give the appearence of normancy through the sheer numbers of its members, through pseuedo -scientific cliams of sexual preference and or identity being separate from physical gender, that because a choice or compulsion exist it is "the right thing" to give into it, to indugle in it or to glorify it. It's common, homosexuality, just like drug use, common but not normal, or positive. But of course it must be ok cuz just about anyone can be gay, by choice, as long as they want to be, just like some people choose to pick thier noses on live tv or jump into oncoming traffic. Just dont try to kid yourself thinking that what you're doing is in anyway the result of natural thought processes, or that it is the way it should be, or that non sinister motivations cannot result in sinister acts... :icon_neutral:

 

[Movedtoanswer]

Well remember you can really be sure a male is gay if he's under the age of 14, remember puberty now starts and even so pre teens tend more to be around boys like in groups in school. So to safely say one is gay you have to check after 14

But how would you "check" even then?
There is simply no way to know at any age unless you ask.

Since sexual orientation is about sexual attractions then you would probably have to wait until puberty to ask (since that is when sexual attractions begin in earnest). Puberty comes at all different ages (and is showing up earlier and earlier too).

Let children be children; even big men are confused many times.

But the problem too with "checking" (not asking) is that we had some people claiming that the length of your nails determines whether or not you respond physiologically to attractive men (although no lengths were specified...lol).

I'm starting form the beginning so give me time to catch up...lol.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

Yes as i was explaining their is and will never be any genes linking homosexuality none at all

Don't hang your hat on that. If homosexual behavior is wrong, then it doesn't matter if it is "genetic' or not.
So I don't see this as important really.
Wrong is not based on genetic predisposition. Wrong is wrong.

Bear with me, I am trying to catch up...lol.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

Well hmm let me see its just like how some one can rape and kill people its their mentality, Being around alot of guys for their whole entire lives can have an impact on this, All them all male schools has alot of them and make them into what we are talking about

There is no proof sexual abuse leads to homosexual feelings later in life; although there is no proof in the other direction either. It might or might not.

More to this post, the part about all-male schools is probably not true either. There is no evidence pupils at all-male schools turn out to have homosexual feelings at a higher rate than for co-ed schools. (Full disclosure: I went to an all-male school and I'm damned proud of it and I feel it was better than the alternative by far...lol).

Besides, don't gay men stereotypically hang out with more women than men?

 

[Movedtoanswer]

Now, people can choose how they wish to behave. There is simply no question about that. People who have same-sex attractions do not have to act on them--and a good many do not, especially in places like Trinidad where it can be dangerous or expose one to ridicule etc.
Others do not for religious reasons.
But some choose to act on their feelings.
The feelings really do exist. You will not voluntarily choose to do something you are not already inclined in some way to do.
You can choose how you act; but you often cannot choose your motivations (I did not say "motives" eh two different words).

Everyone suffers from some form of "negative" compulsion, read about intrusive thoughts(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thoughts), its human nature to conceive of things they rather not, the point is how you respond to those thoughts.
I find myself 'intrigued" by all kinds of things, wierd, oddball things, macabre , evil, even should i act on this facination? Noo..well at least in my case i know certain things just arent right.. but if i really wanted to be evil... should i? because it is my undeniable nature? Should i abuse my free will to do borderline or questionable acts?? Ok lets all do what we feel like now..

All you have to "do" to be homosexual is to have a sexual attraction to members of your own sex. You don't have to have sex with them, or put on lipstick, or call the "girlfriend" with a lisp; you just have to have a sexual physiological response to them (and not to women). (Check the dictionary)

I understand this completely, but i was refering to homosexuality as a lifestyle, in a very generalised way. I'm fully aware that there are no external cues to someones sexuality, see me i have long nails, so some people think i'm gay, but if i honestly thought that long nails denotes sexuality i'd have cut them a long time ago.. The thing is as much as we like to assume that homosexuality is just about preference, its way beyond that. You say its been around forever i know this also, its just that now it's a movement,
a life style, a loosely connected social organisation like freerunning, or goth (not that goth is gay) or autosportsism (gasbrainsim). It's sole purpose it to give the appearence of normancy through the sheer numbers of its members, through pseuedo -scientific cliams of sexual preference and or identity being separate from physical gender, that because a choice or compulsion exist it is "the right thing" to give into it, to indugle in it or to glorify it. It's common, homosexuality, just like drug use, common but not normal, or positive. But of course it must be ok cuz just about anyone can be gay, by choice, as long as they want to be, just like some people choose to pick thier noses on live tv or jump into oncoming traffic. Just dont try to kid yourself thinking that what you're doing is in anyway the result of natural thought processes, or that it is the way it should be, or that non sinister motivations cannot result in sinister acts... :icon_neutral:

I agree with you to some extent; but I do think that homosexual feelings are a distinct class of feelings that not everybody experiences. I think it's way more than that Whatever causes men to find women attractive, I thin is simply reversed in homosexuals--whatever it is.

Also you say normal thought processes do not produce homosexual behavior; but I would dispute that sex in general is about "thought processes' at all lol!
I don't think people think at all about who they find attractive they just find that the person in question is attractive (for some unknown reason) and then choose what--if anything--to do about it.

I do doubt that someone who realized they were sexually attracted to Adriana Lima for example could choose to "un-like" her.

 

[RauCous]

You know jamaican artistes are getting trouble for singing anti gay songs. Really they getting penalise for all the so called hate speech. Cant straight people talk about their preference anymore.

"Gunshot inna head" is not a "preference" it is illegal.

Straights do talk/sing about their preference all the time. Why almost every love song ever written...

Jamaica does have a serious problem though. They are obsessed to an unhealthy degree. And do tell; if there are no gays in Jamaica, then who are all these "chi chi men" they keep singing about obsessively?

Jamaica--hands down produces the largest share of the worlds songs about homosexuals by far! I find that very funny. Try to find the theme of homosexuality in music from say Sweden (a liberal country) or maybe England (where gays can marry now). Go back 50 years to the birth of pop music and tell me if you find even 1% of the music talking about homosexuality as you find out of "gay-free" Jamaica in one year.

Alot of gay songs are sung or played by the media that not noticed by the general public too. People hardly notice homosexuality in music unless its a diliberate referencing. So many songs we like could very well be about homosexuality. But hey maybe jamica is hiding something... :icon_confused:

 

[RauCous]

I agree with you to some extent; but I do think that homosexual feelings are a distinct class of feelings that not everybody experiences. I think it's way more than that Whatever causes men to find women attractive, I thin is simply reversed in homosexuals--whatever it is.

Also you say normal thought processes do not produce homosexual behavior; but I would dispute that sex in general is about "thought processes' at all lol!
I don't think people think at all about who they find attractive they just find that the person in question is attractive (for some unknown reason) and then choose what--if anything--to do about it.

I do doubt that someone who realized they were sexually attracted to Adriana Lima for example could choose to "un-like" her.

Are you sure... i could be gay... i could be feeling that way.. or not.. but it is truly a choice- i'd be only if i wanted it... sexual preferences are still only choice dependent or maybe orientation is a safer word to use than preferences.. There may be a neurological, biological or psycological contributor to the feeling or tendency but that doesnt make action, homosexuality is diliberate. Do tendencies equate to nature or does will? Does the ability to kill make me a killer or does wanting to kill make me a killer? or Does actually killing make me one.
No really i want an answer. :icon_mrgreen:

 

[Movedtoanswer]

You see a lot of times people say:

"Why would you go for men when there are all these sweet women in the world?" as if their own sexuality and attractions were conscious, rational thoughts. But then they have to answer:

When did you decide to find women sexually attractive?
What factors went into the decision to do so?
How long did you take to decide women were attractive to you?

There was no "choice". One day, after years of thinking girls had "cooties" and were annoying, you began to like them all of a sudden.
It was not a logical move. You never sat down and said: "Okay, women make babies and if I want to have a family I must take a female sexual partner, so because I want children I will decide to find girls sexually attractive."
You just liked them all of a sudden, and well, if you liked them and they were around maybe you could get to kiss one or something...
When does this happen? Around puberty?

Well in the same way, I believe people with same-sex attractions when they tell me that around puberty when other guys were suddenly beginning to notice girls they were suddenly beginning to look at guys in the same way; and that when they tried to like girls like everyone else they just couldn't respond in the same way. Why? Who knows? But I doubt at that age they ever, ever, ever wanted to be different to their peers in any way--especially when things are going strange with everybody's bodies and stuff.

Now if you believe that homosexual behavior is wrong and you believe this also, then the proper (to me anyway) response is not scorn but pity/sympathy. Here are a bunch of people with feelings they never wanted. What are they supposed to do?
I don't believe they should act on it; but that's just like asking a straight boy/man to be celibate for life. Or like telling them: "Well if you try hard enough you'll find guys attractive."

Some people actually believe that (and this refuse to wear pink...lol). I don't think that is very possible at all. I don't think straight men can just "decide" to get an erection when they see an attractive member of their own sex.
We all know that has a mind of its own.

That's just like asking them to "decide" not to find any other woman but their wife/girlfriend sexually attractive. Now they can decide not to cheat, but they certainly cannot switch off their brain circuits when they go out without their wife.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

You know jamaican artistes are getting trouble for singing anti gay songs. Really they getting penalise for all the so called hate speech. Cant straight people talk about their preference anymore.

"Gunshot inna head" is not a "preference" it is illegal.

Straights do talk/sing about their preference all the time. Why almost every love song ever written...

Jamaica does have a serious problem though. They are obsessed to an unhealthy degree. And do tell; if there are no gays in Jamaica, then who are all these "chi chi men" they keep singing about obsessively?

Jamaica--hands down produces the largest share of the worlds songs about homosexuals by far! I find that very funny. Try to find the theme of homosexuality in music from say Sweden (a liberal country) or maybe England (where gays can marry now). Go back 50 years to the birth of pop music and tell me if you find even 1% of the music talking about homosexuality as you find out of "gay-free" Jamaica in one year.

Alot of gay songs are sung or played by the media that not noticed by the general public too. People hardly notice homosexuality in music unless its a diliberate referencing. So many songs we like could very well be about homosexuality. But hey maybe jamica is hiding something... :icon_confused:

That's true too eh. But then again I think most song lyrics are pretentious. I wonder if the artistes really think that we care how they say the felt when they wrote the song... :icon_cheesygrin:

 

[Movedtoanswer]

I agree with you to some extent; but I do think that homosexual feelings are a distinct class of feelings that not everybody experiences. I think it's way more than that Whatever causes men to find women attractive, I thin is simply reversed in homosexuals--whatever it is.

Also you say normal thought processes do not produce homosexual behavior; but I would dispute that sex in general is about "thought processes' at all lol!
I don't think people think at all about who they find attractive they just find that the person in question is attractive (for some unknown reason) and then choose what--if anything--to do about it.

I do doubt that someone who realized they were sexually attracted to Adriana Lima for example could choose to "un-like" her.

Are you sure... i could be gay... i could be feeling that way.. or not.. but it is truly a choice- i'd be only if i wanted it... sexual preferences are still only choice dependent or maybe orientation is a safer word to use than preferences.. There may be a neurological, biological or psycological contributor to the feeling or tendency but that doesnt make action, homosexuality is diliberate. Do tendencies equate to nature or does will? Does the ability to kill make me a killer or does wanting to kill make me a killer? or Does actually killing make me one.
No really i want an answer. :icon_mrgreen:

Well you don't coose the feeling, but you certainlly could choose to look for a girlfriend.
The problem is the feeling does not go away because you have a girlfriend, and you don't get feelings for the girl just because you want to.
I think most men who have feelings for other men want to like women. Especially when they first find out. But just because they want it doesn't mean they get it. In fact most would say they failed.
So many just give in at least partway. After all it's not like the straights are practicing any self-control either.

 

[Movedtoanswer]

Now about the killer analogy. A better one would be an alcoholic.
There are many alcoholics who do not drink (having either stopped or not started yet); but as long as they are predisposed to alcohol addiction they will be considered alcoholic.
Even 30 years after your last drink, at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting you are considered a "recovering alcoholic" for the rest of your life. The fight never ends.

I think the same applies to homosexuals feelings.

 

[RauCous]

You see a lot of times people say:

"Why would you go for men when there are all these sweet women in the world?" as if their own sexuality and attractions were conscious, rational thoughts. But then they have to answer:

When did you decide to find women sexually attractive?
What factors went into the decision to do so?
How long did you take to decide women were attractive to you?

There was no "choice". One day, after years of thinking girls had "cooties" and were annoying, you began to like them all of a sudden.
It was not a logical move. You never sat down and said: "Okay, women make babies and if I want to have a family I must take a female sexual partner, so because I want children I will decide to find girls sexually attractive."
You just liked them all of a sudden, and well, if you liked them and they were around maybe you could get to kiss one or something...
When does this happen? Around puberty?

Well in the same way, I believe people with same-sex attractions when they tell me that around puberty when other guys were suddenly beginning to notice girls they were suddenly beginning to look at guys in the same way; and that when they tried to like girls like everyone else they just couldn't respond in the same way. Why? Who knows? But I doubt at that age they ever, ever, ever wanted to be different to their peers in any way--especially when things are going strange with everybody's bodies and stuff.

Now if you believe that homosexual behavior is wrong and you believe this also, then the proper (to me anyway) response is not scorn but pity/sympathy. Here are a bunch of people with feelings they never wanted. What are they supposed to do?
I don't believe they should act on it; but that's just like asking a straight boy/man to be celibate for life. Or like telling them: "Well if you try hard enough you'll find guys attractive."

Some people actually believe that (and this refuse to wear pink...lol). I don't think that is very possible at all. I don't think straight men can just "decide" to get an erection when they see an attractive member of their own sex.
We all know that has a mind of its own.

That's just like asking them to "decide" not to find any other woman but their wife/girlfriend sexually attractive. Now they can decide not to cheat, but they certainly cannot switch off their brain circuits when they go out without their wife.

I'm not disputing that tendencies dont exist, i'm just saying theses tendencies whereever they come from are born of unnatural consequences. I should have said this before but i seriously belive that homosexual behaviour is taught or even thrusted unto some people. And if you buy into it you WILL become gay, erections and all. If I had believed what alot of people told me about my sexual orientation i know i would be gay. Wait does this make me a closet gay? Do i harbour feelings of men inside? Am I in denial of something i cant change?... i doubt that. Like i said before humans inevetably have perverted thoughts, even if they dont see it as such. Its the indulgence or the fact that we entertain these options that determine what we are. And its proven people find pleasure in all kinds of things, including pain... but it dosent mean these things are right.
I know wanting something doesnt alway cause it to happen and i almost went into a spiritual argument but i'll not go there. Thats where we differ on opinion, i belive we are beings of choice, whether those choices are conscious or unconscious, choices based on what we expose ourselves to or what is exposed to us.

 

[RauCous]

Now about the killer analogy. A better one would be an alcoholic.
There are many alcoholics who do not drink (having either stopped or not started yet); but as long as they are predisposed to alcohol addiction they will be considered alcoholic.
Even 30 years after your last drink, at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting you are considered a "recovering alcoholic" for the rest of your life. The fight never ends.

I think the same applies to homosexuals feelings.

True and drug addicts.. but is it that they don't possess free will? Is the addiction they suffer physical or psychological? If its physical as in a chemical need to like men then explain the mechanisms involved... I'm pretty sure the laws of attraction are the same for everyone... even those who claim to hate everything and everyone have an affinity to something. If its a psychological need then its caused by something in the environment and they're programmed to think this way. If its both then it really is like alcoholism, genetic/environmental/psychological factors conspiring towards a negative result.

 

[admin]

WOW dude lol Movedtoanswer quote every post thing this thread and replied to it, thats cool lol, 18 post in this thread alone lol this topic have to be a heated one

 

[RauCous]

WOW dude lol Movedtoanswer quote every post thing this thread and replied to it, thats cool lol, 18 post in this thread alone lol this topic have to be a heated one

Yeah I like that in some people... creating action... GOOOD!!!