Who Likes Sound Quality?
- Thread starter nirtime
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
Nothing more than $2500 if buying locally I will say is a good price for a nice double din pio with dvd and some SQ features if you don't mind an older model with the same features.
If you want newer models and buying locally well it could easily cross 3k.
Nice to see talk about sound quality. I have not read all of the comments extensively but i would like to make an input. Forgive me if i am wrong, lmao. Most SQ champs use components in their system because of the active crossovers that come with these components. I have never actually entered but i believe you can use any kind of equipment u wish. It's all about achieving the cleanest and most realistic sound your system can produce. That is to say your system must perform as a live band or orchestra when in operation. The ideal way to achieve this is settings parameters. You must be able to set you highs, high mid, low mid and lows properly in each audible range. Therefore you need tweeters, speakers that produce good high mid, also other speakers to produce low mid or mid bass, and offcourse your bass speaker, which is not always necessary in Sq systems. From my point of view a good deck with at least a 6 or 7 band eq is necesary, doesn't matter which brand, what matters is that it has a high preout voltage to drive your system,i.e 4v preout and higher. Preamps are not necessary either but can be used when the deck's eq is not so advanced. Next you must have a crossover which seperates your music into highs , mids and bass. I recently saw a crossover product from taramp which splits into low, low mid, high mid, and highs, which will be perfect in a Sq system. I am sure there are other higher quality crossovers that are 4 way as well, memphis, kicker etc.
Setting your system is key in winning a Sq competition, you must be able to hear each instrument in the song clearly, you must have a good ear. I think the trick is to set everything seperately, and at a maximum of half capacity, always have more power than necessary, and speakers that can take more power, i.e set music away from distortion limit. I hope you understand what i am trying to say.
I have been in car audio for years and have always been fascinated by it. For me the best brands for sound quality are alpine, jbl, jl, rf, orion, boston acoutic and even clarion, my favourite is phoenix gold, which amazes me up to date. Other brands can be used effectively as midrange like 18 sounds, bnc, rcf, das etc. I am currently intrigued by SQ, just dont have the big bucks to rally with the big boys. Btw nice thread nirtime, looking forward to more discussions like these. Peace out
Setting your system is key in winning a Sq competition, you must be able to hear each instrument in the song clearly, you must have a good ear. I think the trick is to set everything seperately, and at a maximum of half capacity, always have more power than necessary, and speakers that can take more power, i.e set music away from distortion limit. I hope you understand what i am trying to say.
I have been in car audio for years and have always been fascinated by it. For me the best brands for sound quality are alpine, jbl, jl, rf, orion, boston acoutic and even clarion, my favourite is phoenix gold, which amazes me up to date. Other brands can be used effectively as midrange like 18 sounds, bnc, rcf, das etc. I am currently intrigued by SQ, just dont have the big bucks to rally with the big boys. Btw nice thread nirtime, looking forward to more discussions like these. Peace out
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
You are right Soundbwoy. The only difference is that you must not be able to localise where the speakers are located. Sound must be staged to blend so well that you dont really know where the speakers are exactly.
In so doing a head unit needs time alignment and for competition grade systems they need a much more complexed eq with 16+ bands and an RTA to really dial it all in. Most competition systems would use a processor like the JBL MS8 or Rockford 360.3, Audison Bit Ten, etc... The adjustability is ridiculous with these as crossover points can all be chosen at will, the eqs have more bands than needed for the average guy for daily use and pretty much contain separate time alignment for each speaker for maximum quality. The difference with or without a processor is the difference in your sound stage mainly and to a great extent the quality if any upscaling takes place.
You can get great Sq from a two way component set but most sets come with passive crossovers. Sure you can use anything and get it to sound alright with tuning but it also comes down to the limits of the speakers themselves and how prepped the cabin is.
In so doing a head unit needs time alignment and for competition grade systems they need a much more complexed eq with 16+ bands and an RTA to really dial it all in. Most competition systems would use a processor like the JBL MS8 or Rockford 360.3, Audison Bit Ten, etc... The adjustability is ridiculous with these as crossover points can all be chosen at will, the eqs have more bands than needed for the average guy for daily use and pretty much contain separate time alignment for each speaker for maximum quality. The difference with or without a processor is the difference in your sound stage mainly and to a great extent the quality if any upscaling takes place.
You can get great Sq from a two way component set but most sets come with passive crossovers. Sure you can use anything and get it to sound alright with tuning but it also comes down to the limits of the speakers themselves and how prepped the cabin is.
You are absolutely right nirtime, adjustibility is everything and with these processors nowadays it is a breeze, taking into consideration that you know how to set these equipment. Knowing how to adjust thise processors is a profession by itself in which car audio installers take years to master. Also that point you made about not being able to distinquish where the sound is coming from is remarkable, which i'm sure will give you the edge on the competition. I also stand corrected when i said that the components had active crossovers rather than passive crossovers, was not sure which one...lol. You seem to be a professional in these field, are you just a car audio expert, or are you involved in the business as an installer or dealer?
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
I am not a pro,I'm just a hobbyist Sq nut and I like to push my skills where possible with every install I do for myself and friends. I would like to do it on the side eventually as a little niche for daily use.
The difference with components is that they are meant to work together. When designed in the factory they are built to blend and compliment to produce a wider spectrum of frequencies. A typical Sq 6" woofer will go down into deep midbass/high sub bass territory typically around 50-60hz or even 40hz. I used to have my 2 way components shaking my rear view mirror while retaining decent quality. Im aware it takes at least a 3 way setup to do this using pro audio spl equipment.
Components also produce a more accurate, flat sound naturally whereas ive noticed a lot of spl equipment tend to be more peaky/less flat in response but they are also lighter duty with higher sensitivty.
SQ is wonderful but I would also like to learn a bit about pro audio and what it actually takes to get 150+ dbs with decent sound quality.
The difference with components is that they are meant to work together. When designed in the factory they are built to blend and compliment to produce a wider spectrum of frequencies. A typical Sq 6" woofer will go down into deep midbass/high sub bass territory typically around 50-60hz or even 40hz. I used to have my 2 way components shaking my rear view mirror while retaining decent quality. Im aware it takes at least a 3 way setup to do this using pro audio spl equipment.
Components also produce a more accurate, flat sound naturally whereas ive noticed a lot of spl equipment tend to be more peaky/less flat in response but they are also lighter duty with higher sensitivty.
SQ is wonderful but I would also like to learn a bit about pro audio and what it actually takes to get 150+ dbs with decent sound quality.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2015
- Messages
- 351
Hey what do you guys think about this. A bit pricey but seems to be a great space saver.
BassLink - Infinity US
BassLink - Infinity US
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
Never heard it but last I know it was $1800 locally.
You can always buy an alright slim sub like a Memphis too for a lot less and power it off 2 channels leaving another 2 for the front speakers on a 4ch which would save space and money.
BTW for ultimate space saving ive got an 8" sub behind a backseat in a double cab pick up, wouldn't even know it was there till it slaps you in the face lol. Can look at doing that just behind your backseat facing the trunk in your Impreza. You wont lose too much space and it has more bass than the slim sub.
You can always buy an alright slim sub like a Memphis too for a lot less and power it off 2 channels leaving another 2 for the front speakers on a 4ch which would save space and money.
BTW for ultimate space saving ive got an 8" sub behind a backseat in a double cab pick up, wouldn't even know it was there till it slaps you in the face lol. Can look at doing that just behind your backseat facing the trunk in your Impreza. You wont lose too much space and it has more bass than the slim sub.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2015
- Messages
- 1,195
go pioneer dan lol incase you ever need to troubleshoot anything google will be helpful lmao
Dude dont waste you time with those equipment....lmao
Nirtime check out this video...achieving 150 db with 2500rms and 2 12
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w2ots-v6uEk
Nirtime check out this video...achieving 150 db with 2500rms and 2 12
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w2ots-v6uEk
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
Well honestly, this doesn't surprise me being its an SUV with some serious cabin gain but it goes to show that a simple setup can do a lot if done correctly.
I would like for that setup and that explorer to hit the streets here and show that simple box design can be very effective.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2015
- Messages
- 351
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
Please do not get a Pioneer sub... They are pretty average, boomy subs. Not too SQ oriented.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
I think it'll be good for an increase in quality but it will not really be an Sq setup. The Infinity sub is good, the preamp wont be necessary unless you need more eqing ive never had one on my entire system so I can't comment and im also not too familiar with the 4500 but once it has low and high pass crossovers and at least a 5 band eq youll be alright.
Jbl speakers youre referring too? The coaxial jbls are something like a budget Pioneer basically a boost in quality but not quite Sq. The component setups with separate woofer and tweeter could work but last I've seen they costed more than some more Sq oriented sets locally for less money.
I prefer Rockford Fosgate to JBL in all honesty when considering the lower end $300-$700 sets.
You will need to focus more on staging to achieve the Sq. SQ setups sound like its in front of you with monitor like details. For this reason you may not need back speakers because they will interfere with your ability to stage and in turn the rear speakers will cancel the front stage to an extent and it wont sound quite right if youre accustomed to Sq.
However it comes down to install and preference as well. Your doors may require sound deadening to eliminate rattling and bring the midbass forward in addition to building a ported sub box tuned low into the 30hz range. This may be needed to have a smooth transition between midbass and sub bass. Ive personally done 2 12" Kenwoods at 35hz and really loved the quality of them but it really varies from car to car as well as your personal taste. I expect great things from the Infinity 8 but I'd say go with a 10" it'll be slightly more efficient and probably hit some lower bass notes.
You'll need a 4ch amp if you want to run front speakers and a sub. If you want to do all 4 speakers then a 5ch amp or a 4ch on the speakers and a monoblock amp on the bass. I've always found keeping the stock rear speakers to be cheapest and also better suited for rear fill than upgraded, amped speakers. But your preference may vary.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2015
- Messages
- 351
When you say back speakers are you talking about speakers in the back door or behind the back seat? I only have speakers by my back doors anyway.
I'm still finding it hard to wrap my head around the fact that 2 speakers are better than 4 for the SQ setup.
I onlu mentioned JBL because you said they were a good brand earlier, I'm guessing you wete really talking about woofers. The RF door speakers sound good. From what I read up on concerning the impreza, it would need sound deadening. I've seen people complain about door rattling in online forums.
I think the 10" sounds like a better idea also. It's not that much bigger and it should handle what I throw at it a but better.
I'm still finding it hard to wrap my head around the fact that 2 speakers are better than 4 for the SQ setup.
I onlu mentioned JBL because you said they were a good brand earlier, I'm guessing you wete really talking about woofers. The RF door speakers sound good. From what I read up on concerning the impreza, it would need sound deadening. I've seen people complain about door rattling in online forums.
I think the 10" sounds like a better idea also. It's not that much bigger and it should handle what I throw at it a but better.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
Jbls are nice but for the money I saw their components go for here there are more Sq oriented options such as Memphis which have a very flat sound which is what you need to hear details accurately.
Its not a matter of two being better four,its where you want sound to come from to create the staging. With rear speakers be it on the door or by the rear windshield, it interferes and pulls the sound to kill the staging and also cancels out the fronts quite a bit causing weak midbass or a little muddy sound.
If you fade your stock speakers to the front they may not stage due to lack of a tweeter to raise the stage.
With a proper pair of front speakers you lose nothing in terms of details and quality.
Most people dont know about that type of setup locally but if you look it up on Google lots of resources to diyma will come up with pages of info on the topic.
Its not a matter of two being better four,its where you want sound to come from to create the staging. With rear speakers be it on the door or by the rear windshield, it interferes and pulls the sound to kill the staging and also cancels out the fronts quite a bit causing weak midbass or a little muddy sound.
If you fade your stock speakers to the front they may not stage due to lack of a tweeter to raise the stage.
With a proper pair of front speakers you lose nothing in terms of details and quality.
Most people dont know about that type of setup locally but if you look it up on Google lots of resources to diyma will come up with pages of info on the topic.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2015
- Messages
- 351
Looking to install some audio. Nothing much. Tell me what you think. Using three way door speakers with frequency response between 35Hz to 31kHz I think and the Pioneer sub goes down to 20Hz. I'm guessing a crossover anywhere between 80-100Hz should be easily handled by the system. I also included an equaliser to manually allow me to flatten out the response of the speakers as well as give me some control over bass response and staging. But the best part is this setup should also allow me to keep nearly all of my trunk space.
Current Setup
Deck - DEH 2700 UI (2014 Model)
Speakers - Stock 6.5" x2 Front
New SetupDeck - Same
Speakers - 50W/4Ω - Pioneer TS-A1675R 6-1/2" 3-Way x 4 Front and Back
Subwoofer - 300W/4Ω Pioneer TSSWX2502 10"
Equaliser - Clarion EQS746 1/2 DIN
Amplifier - Rockford Fosgate R600X5 Prime 5-Channel Amplifier (4 x 50W + 1 x 200W @ 4Ω)
Speakers
Subwoofer
Equaliser
Amplifier
Current Setup
Deck - DEH 2700 UI (2014 Model)
Speakers - Stock 6.5" x2 Front
New SetupDeck - Same
Speakers - 50W/4Ω - Pioneer TS-A1675R 6-1/2" 3-Way x 4 Front and Back
Subwoofer - 300W/4Ω Pioneer TSSWX2502 10"
Equaliser - Clarion EQS746 1/2 DIN
Amplifier - Rockford Fosgate R600X5 Prime 5-Channel Amplifier (4 x 50W + 1 x 200W @ 4Ω)
Speakers
Subwoofer
Equaliser
Amplifier
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2015
- Messages
- 351
Now re read the thread and saw the "no pioneer" comments. LMAO
Looks like I'm going to have to start over.
I saw a good 4 channel 50w Alpine amp for the components and a single channel 300W amp for the subwoofer. just need to decide on good speakers and sub right now. 500W is more power than I'll ever need. a 500W sq sustem shouldn't be too hard.
Looks like I'm going to have to start over.
I saw a good 4 channel 50w Alpine amp for the components and a single channel 300W amp for the subwoofer. just need to decide on good speakers and sub right now. 500W is more power than I'll ever need. a 500W sq sustem shouldn't be too hard.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 2,914
dude the amp sounds great. honestly, I say go in the stores and listen to what has the best response for your ears. Personally I love my DD CS more everyday but I like as flat a response as possible too. Pioneer coaxials won't cut it. maybe the MTX coaxial or the Hybrid coaxials will work.
If you want to do rear fill, you can set the gain lower than the front or if you're planning to add external processing like a dsp or high volt output equalizer then you can just play with the output volumes and fader to get the sound where you want it.
Ideally though. for budget SQ, a set of components in the front doors is the way to go. Tweeters on the A Pillar or on the sail panel just behind the side view mirrors also work decently depending on the car ive found. Maybe the Memphis components, Hybrid Imagine, Alpine components, DDs, Focal, DLS etc... Those are what we have locally.
If after you put a good set in the doors and the midbass is weak, then you need to deaden the doors to seal any large access gaps to strength the midbass as that can only be given by front doors to allow you to cross your sub low enough to avoid localisation. 80hz for me is too high on a sub, that's just me being me, you can play around with that as it will differ for every interior to get the bass to blend well with the front. In my setup the sub is an extension of the front doors so bass sounds like it comes from the doors when its really coming from the sub.
For SQ, Tune the sub low, choose a good sub that will handle 30-35hz tuning. A good rule of thumb is to stick within 5hz of the fs of a subwoofer to avoid damaging it. 500w should also be a nice kick in the bass.
If you do your install and find your bass is louder with the door open or stifling with the cabin sealed up, you'll need to cut a 3-4" port in your rear deck or port the armrest on the backseat. When I had a sedan I chose to live with that cancellation though lol.
I also don't like rear speakers unless it's bandpassed to only output the mid range quietly for rear passengers which will not even be needed for you if you like the front staged effect that SQ can give.
The Pioneer you linked to isn't SQ. Its some average Joe OEM replacement/upgrade lmao. The sub might do depending on what you like. That is boomy or tight bass.
Also if you want to bear the cost, a better stereo or a dsp will allow you a better eq, superior crossovers and time alignment vs the clarion eqs746. It will also provide 3 pairs of 4v rca outputs which should be enough for front, rear and sub or low, mid and high( network mode on the Pioneer x series).
If you want to do rear fill, you can set the gain lower than the front or if you're planning to add external processing like a dsp or high volt output equalizer then you can just play with the output volumes and fader to get the sound where you want it.
Ideally though. for budget SQ, a set of components in the front doors is the way to go. Tweeters on the A Pillar or on the sail panel just behind the side view mirrors also work decently depending on the car ive found. Maybe the Memphis components, Hybrid Imagine, Alpine components, DDs, Focal, DLS etc... Those are what we have locally.
If after you put a good set in the doors and the midbass is weak, then you need to deaden the doors to seal any large access gaps to strength the midbass as that can only be given by front doors to allow you to cross your sub low enough to avoid localisation. 80hz for me is too high on a sub, that's just me being me, you can play around with that as it will differ for every interior to get the bass to blend well with the front. In my setup the sub is an extension of the front doors so bass sounds like it comes from the doors when its really coming from the sub.
For SQ, Tune the sub low, choose a good sub that will handle 30-35hz tuning. A good rule of thumb is to stick within 5hz of the fs of a subwoofer to avoid damaging it. 500w should also be a nice kick in the bass.
If you do your install and find your bass is louder with the door open or stifling with the cabin sealed up, you'll need to cut a 3-4" port in your rear deck or port the armrest on the backseat. When I had a sedan I chose to live with that cancellation though lol.
I also don't like rear speakers unless it's bandpassed to only output the mid range quietly for rear passengers which will not even be needed for you if you like the front staged effect that SQ can give.
The Pioneer you linked to isn't SQ. Its some average Joe OEM replacement/upgrade lmao. The sub might do depending on what you like. That is boomy or tight bass.
Also if you want to bear the cost, a better stereo or a dsp will allow you a better eq, superior crossovers and time alignment vs the clarion eqs746. It will also provide 3 pairs of 4v rca outputs which should be enough for front, rear and sub or low, mid and high( network mode on the Pioneer x series).