#HeForShe and "Feminism"

[Shadowhunter]

I'm glad Emma has spent so much focus on explaining what feminism truly is and has asked for transparency from others regarding gender inequality, which I have experienced throughout my life. Too many people incorrectly assume feminism is about "man hating" when it fact, it is about gender equality. It means that in a world initially run by men; women have a say, the same respect, treatment, and opportunities. What do you think about what she has to say? Will you support this movement? Why or why not?

 

[nirtime]

Too many people incorrectly assume feminism is about "man hating" when it fact, it is about gender equality. It means that in a world initially run by men; women have a say, the same respect, treatment, and opportunities. What do you think about what she has to say? Will you support this movement? Why or why not?

Now that I do not have a problem against honestly. I find it silly sometimes when people talk about feminism as being misconceived to be advantageous against men or discriminatory toward men. I am familiar with the work of the Feminist Perspective from being a Sociology student and I must say, I do agree with equality and egalitarian based families, the better question is, can society handle such a thing?

 

[Shadowhunter]

Trini society today has far to go before gender equality is perceived as normal. Wives and mothers are quite heavily and blatantly discriminated against in the work force, while men who are married and/or have children are rarely ever looked at differently than a single, childless man. If a man is seen differently, it's usually a plus as a show of commitment. Both men and women continue telling young women to this day that women who work and/or further their education are being "man-ish", "own way", or "feel they too good" and discourage them from such activities. It is rudely imposed on many women that they "must" do "the right thing" or "the proper thing" and stay home to take care of their families like a "good" wife/mother/daughter etc. And don't forget the pressure on women who must have a man to be considered as "having it all" (and are presumed lonely, desperate, missing out, suffering etc without) whereas the man is accepted as either a bachelor or searching for/having found the "perfect" or a "good" woman.

Until that stops being popular opinion, Trinidad is not ready to move ahead with the times. Not when families look down on daughters and favor sons; or marry off daughters early to rid themselves of the "burden"; encourage and assist sons with work and school while denying daughters the same privilege; insist that it is a woman's role to cook, wash, and clean; insist that a man's role is to bring home the money; refer to girls who climb trees, like cars, and wear pants as "wild" and "problematic"; refer to boys who like cooking, fashion, and reading as "hen", "bulless", and effeminate; refer to working mothers/wives/daughters as selfish and uncaring; refer to fathers/husbands/son who stay home to mind the family as "whipped" or womanly; the list goes on. All of these problems are STILL prevalent today, and are considered the norm.

Parents and teachers need to treat boys and girls equally, employers need to treat men and women equally, and men and women need to start treating themselves equally. It should not matter what your relationship status or family count is. If it is not an issue to hold a man back, why should it be the woman's burden? It should not matter what your passions and interests are; be it sewing, baking, decorating, reading, writing, dancing, etc. If it is not an issue to hold a woman back, why should it be the man's burden?

 

[LadyDeath]

I am so happy to see this moving forward and more celebrities are using their fame for something inspiring/ educating

Men look at feminist people as a nuisance in society and say how most feminist women as 'lesbians', however this is untrue. We live in a society today where equality for all must happen. Feminism is not only about women's rights but rights for all status of people. It was solely based on women however has branched off to educate all about discrimination that is taking place all over the world.

I wish our Third World Countries can recognize this, however, it is our mindset that needs to change before we can move anywhere. I think it all has to deal with Socialization for children at an early age. We need to grow them up with the mind frame to accept all human beings for who they are and not judge. In this day and age there is no room for inequality ! We are all heading in one direction at the end of the day

 

[Shadowhunter]

Yes, I totally agree. I think not only parents, but all caregivers, friends, teachers, and even strangers that come into contact with our children help shape their minds. I think it's very important for these adults to lead by example and show the children around them that they, first and foremost, and not only encouraging and accepting of equality, but display it through their own actions.

I also find it a bit disconcerting that most Trinis feel the need to comment on a child's future marital status when observing them. What does that have to do with who they are presently? Why can't we accept children as they are; nurture, support, and encourage them - actually helping them forward instead of criticizing, limiting, and stereotyping them? Must we train children to become as relationship obsessed as many adults are? Must this be imposed at such impressionable, tender ages? Instead of "hmmph. Well you cyah get no girlfriend if you have a health problem." or "eh eh! you go make a real good wife; check how you clean your mess!" why not tell them something positive, and encouraging? Have actual conversations that will stimulate their minds and motivate them to be confident, intelligent, open-minded, successful individuals. "What do you want to be when you grow up?" "What do you like to do?" "That's great! What do you like about such and such? Did you know x,y,z?"

I believe children are sponges that soak up information presented to them, whether good or bad. If we fill their heads with silly, narrow-minded, backwards ways of thinking; I think we are limiting their potential and insulting their untapped resources for intelligence.

 

[nirtime]

Trini society today has far to go before gender equality is perceived as normal. Wives and mothers are quite heavily and blatantly discriminated against in the work force, while men who are married and/or have children are rarely ever looked at differently than a single, childless man. If a man is seen differently, it's usually a plus as a show of commitment. Both men and women continue telling young women to this day that women who work and/or further their education are being "man-ish", "own way", or "feel they too good" and discourage them from such activities. It is rudely imposed on many women that they "must" do "the right thing" or "the proper thing" and stay home to take care of their families like a "good" wife/mother/daughter etc. And don't forget the pressure on women who must have a man to be considered as "having it all" (and are presumed lonely, desperate, missing out, suffering etc without) whereas the man is accepted as either a bachelor or searching for/having found the "perfect" or a "good" woman.

Until that stops being popular opinion, Trinidad is not ready to move ahead with the times. Not when families look down on daughters and favor sons; or marry off daughters early to rid themselves of the "burden"; encourage and assist sons with work and school while denying daughters the same privilege; insist that it is a woman's role to cook, wash, and clean; insist that a man's role is to bring home the money; refer to girls who climb trees, like cars, and wear pants as "wild" and "problematic"; refer to boys who like cooking, fashion, and reading as "hen", "bulless", and effeminate; refer to working mothers/wives/daughters as selfish and uncaring; refer to fathers/husbands/son who stay home to mind the family as "whipped" or womanly; the list goes on. All of these problems are STILL prevalent today, and are considered the norm.

Parents and teachers need to treat boys and girls equally, employers need to treat men and women equally, and men and women need to start treating themselves equally. It should not matter what your relationship status or family count is. If it is not an issue to hold a man back, why should it be the woman's burden? It should not matter what your passions and interests are; be it sewing, baking, decorating, reading, writing, dancing, etc. If it is not an issue to hold a woman back, why should it be the man's burden?

To be honest, I've seen much more women get jobs than men even though they were underqualified. It was "other" reasons that got them the job so I think there has been a change, yes a lot of the tradition stands with the "backward" mentality but for the most part I have seen more equality or at least strives toward equality in recent times.

In the school system, female teachers far outnumber male teachers so that alone says something. Added to that, girls outnumber boys in school as well and many more girls are given the opportunity and autonomy to make their life decisions. I do agree that Trinidad is not ready to accept true independence because to fit in with local society, one must be married past a certain age. If they are not married beyond that age, they are considered as a whole range of other criticisms and I do not understand this, its my choice what I want in my life, whose business is it what any of us choose to do.

Another thing, I have couples and marriages where the woman takes control, its becoming much more prevalent especially where the woman is able to have an undisputed influence over the man.

Touching on "getting rid of the burden", I have also seen far less of this early marriage for daughters but I know it still stands, at least arranged marriages are for the most part past tense. I can't tell you when last I've heard of either for that matter.

So really I hear what you're saying but I think it is changing slowly for the very least.

 

[Shadowhunter]

To be honest, I've seen much more women get jobs than men even though they were underqualified. It was "other" reasons that got them the job so I think there has been a change, yes a lot of the tradition stands with the "backward" mentality but for the most part I have seen more equality or at least strives toward equality in recent times.

In the school system, female teachers far outnumber male teachers so that alone says something. Added to that, girls outnumber boys in school as well and many more girls are given the opportunity and autonomy to make their life decisions. I do agree that Trinidad is not ready to accept true independence because to fit in with local society, one must be married past a certain age. If they are not married beyond that age, they are considered as a whole range of other criticisms and I do not understand this, its my choice what I want in my life, whose business is it what any of us choose to do.

Another thing, I have couples and marriages where the woman takes control, its becoming much more prevalent especially where the woman is able to have an undisputed influence over the man.

Touching on "getting rid of the burden", I have also seen far less of this early marriage for daughters but I know it still stands, at least arranged marriages are for the most part past tense. I can't tell you when last I've heard of either for that matter.

So really I hear what you're saying but I think it is changing slowly for the very least.

I'm glad you've seen strides towards equality. That has not been my experience at all, nor the experience of women among my family and friends. I, as well as women I know, continue to face gender discrimination on a regular basis. I agree that there are women who over power and rule over others, and I do not support that any more than I would support a man in the same context. Both men and women face issues such as domestic violence, sexually transmitted diseases, communicable diseases, unfair treatment in the workplace, etc. and neither gender saves them from that. I do not think it is fair for men to be treated unequally either, but from my experiences, I've seen men given more opportunities, favored, and more easily accepted while women (including myself) face harsh scrutiny, criticism, are singled out, and outright denied those same advantages and opportunities. In some cases, we are blatantly told the reason is because we are married/unmarried, childless/with child etc outright. Words are then rearranged to ensure that the "weaker" sex cannot take action to demand equality and society moves on to the next applicant, which in my experience has usually been a man (regardless of marital status or family count) or an unmarried, childless woman.

I think we need more awareness of gender inequality and society as a whole needs to be more educated so communities can educate their families and so on and propel them forward instead of holding them back in the name of "traditions" or inherited backwards thinking.

 

[LadyDeath]

To be honest, I've seen much more women get jobs than men even though they were underqualified. It was "other" reasons that got them the job so I think there has been a change, yes a lot of the tradition stands with the "backward" mentality but for the most part I have seen more equality or at least strives toward equality in recent times.

In the school system, female teachers far outnumber male teachers so that alone says something. Added to that, girls outnumber boys in school as well and many more girls are given the opportunity and autonomy to make their life decisions. I do agree that Trinidad is not ready to accept true independence because to fit in with local society, one must be married past a certain age. If they are not married beyond that age, they are considered as a whole range of other criticisms and I do not understand this, its my choice what I want in my life, whose business is it what any of us choose to do.

Another thing, I have couples and marriages where the woman takes control, its becoming much more prevalent especially where the woman is able to have an undisputed influence over the man.

Touching on "getting rid of the burden", I have also seen far less of this early marriage for daughters but I know it still stands, at least arranged marriages are for the most part past tense. I can't tell you when last I've heard of either for that matter.

So really I hear what you're saying but I think it is changing slowly for the very least.

That's Mustapha Sociology book quotes there. Yes i studied that book back to front and got 2 distinctions for both units
Yes there is alot of equality towards women throughtout the years

1. More women than men doing male-jobs
2. Female headed households due to male marginalization
3. More female teachers than male
4. More girls than boys in a classroom and more girl achievements overall in school
5. We have a female Prime Minister
6. Females are now breadwinners of households and men are now domestic/ stay at home husbands
7. Equal roles in the household now e.g Chores and Housework
8. No longer do husbands make the final decision in the household anymore . It is shared equallly

 

[nirtime]

That's Mustapha Sociology book quotes there. Yes i studied that book back to front and got 2 distinctions for both units
Yes there is alot of equality towards women throughtout the years

1. More women than men doing male-jobs
2. Female headed households due to male marginalization
3. More female teachers than male
4. More girls than boys in a classroom and more girl achievements overall in school
5. We have a female Prime Minister
6. Females are now breadwinners of households and men are now domestic/ stay at home husbands
7. Equal roles in the household now e.g Chores and Housework
8. No longer do husbands make the final decision in the household anymore . It is shared equallly

Lol my word, I have a 3 in unit 1 and a 2 in unit 2.

Honestly I just started to type, I didn't even think about functionalism. Lol

But yes I do see these things locally but its not 100% and may not be for the life span of our generation.

 

[Shadowhunter]

I think I need to move to Chaguanas to see and experience these differences lol Living in South feels like we're still in the '90s sometimes

 

[Lorenzo]

Let me get some references. Too many things to type. So, here's some links:

http://www.angryharry.com/esEqualityNotAchievable.htm

[video=youtube;x9_MVPq1SJY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9_MVPq1SJY[/video]

[video=youtube;4JA4EPRbWhQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JA4EPRbWhQ[/video]


Remember, us men have it hard too. If you want to take the fight for "Feminism" according to pop culture, take it to the middle east where true oppression exists. It's never seen on mainstream media because it's just that bad. If these popular women with those
"feminist" ideals could do something like that it's a cause worth supporting but as of now, no.

Now don't misunderstand, I know that women may be more fit for some roles than men in a few cases. I don't believe in "Feminism" but more in "Human Rights". In the first link shared, you'd see what I mean.

 

[Shadowhunter]

Let me get some references. Too many things to type. So, here's some links:

http://www.angryharry.com/esEqualityNotAchievable.htm

[video=youtube;x9_MVPq1SJY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9_MVPq1SJY[/video]

[video=youtube;4JA4EPRbWhQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JA4EPRbWhQ[/video]


Remember, us men have it hard too. If you want to take the fight for "Feminism" according to pop culture, take it to the middle east where true oppression exists. It's never seen on mainstream media because it's just that bad. If these popular women with those
"feminist" ideals could do something like that it's a cause worth supporting but as of now, no.

Now don't misunderstand, I know that women may be more fit for some roles than men in a few cases. I don't believe in "Feminism" but more in "Human Rights". In the first link shared, you'd see what I mean.

Please heed the videos in the original post as well as my statements. What those men are referring to in your videos is what is described as "pop culture feminism".

Here is wikipedia's definition of pop culture:

Popular culture (or pop culture) is the entirety of ideas, perspectives, attitudes, memes,[SUP][1][/SUP] images, and other phenomena that are within the mainstream of a given culture, especially Western culture of the early to mid 20th century and the emerging global mainstream of the late 20th and early 21st century. Heavily influenced by mass media, this collection of ideas permeates the everyday lives of the society.

Popular culture is often viewed as being trivial and "dumbed down" in order to find consensual acceptance throughout the mainstream. As a result, it comes under heavy criticism from various non-mainstream sources (most notably religious groups and countercultural groups) which deem it superficial, consumerist, sensationalist, or corrupt.

Yes the references they are making are sexist, regardless of which gender is the focus. The people who are making those claims in the name of feminism likely do not understand what authentic feminism truly is. In the videos I posted from the UN conference, Ms. Watson clearly defines feminism as inequality for both genders, with numerous real life examples, and calls for action from both men and women. She asks to hear the stories of how men and women encourage equality and overcome sexism. The #HeForShe campaign asks for men to show their support not only for women to be treated fairly, but for men as well. That is what gender equality i.e. feminism is. One angle from this may be because feminism is mostly stereotyped as a women for women man hating club (such as in the way it is shown in your videos which target pop culture feminism, NOT authentic feminism).

The aim is to increase awareness on how this is an issue for men as well, and for men to have as much of a voice for gender equality as women do as we fight for both men and women to be treated fairly. Again, this is about increasing awareness of feminism. Feminism seeks gender equality. We are aware that feminism is associated with women who are stereotyped as man hating, crying victim, or having hypocritical views. This campaign seeks to correct the pop culture stigmas and educate people (including the stereotypical women acting through pop culture mentalities) about what gender equality truly is, while encouraging more people to lend a voice to this issue in the name of equality for both men and women.

 

[LadyDeath]

I think I need to move to Chaguanas to see and experience these differences lol Living in South feels like we're still in the '90s sometimes

Omg. Not the first time hearing this . My friend told me the same thing.
I also refer to my first post where feminism is not only females but for both sexes.
In Trinidad and Tobago we still experience discrimination especially in the workplace for both men and women.
I also agree about oppression, inequality etc. in the middle east.
However i live in T&T and belong to the wider frame: the Caribbean so we can start there first. We also deal with these issues which stemmed from colonialization. Men and women should work together to destroy the 'back-a-day' mentality that we live in. It's time to move on T&T

 

[Shadowhunter]

Omg. Not the first time hearing this . My friend told me the same thing.
I also refer to my first post where feminism is not only females but for both sexes.
In Trinidad and Tobago we still experience discrimination especially in the workplace for both men and women.
I also agree about oppression, inequality etc. in the middle east.
However i live in T&T and belong to the wider frame: the Caribbean so we can start there first. We also deal with these issues which stemmed from colonialization. Men and women should work together to destroy the 'back-a-day' mentality that we live in. It's time to move on T&T

I'm still waiting to see baby dolls and supplies advertised for boys and race car setups and accessories advertised for girls. It really makes you think though. Look at how so much of society is ready to follow any American or European style without hesitation, but certain forward-thinking mentalities are beyond our society.